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Thursday, November 22, 2007

No Slappz = Feeble

This is part two of the epic battle with teenage wunderkind-No Slappz


No Slappz says-Yep. But, more accurately, an assault on its misleading nature and the unfortunate goal it aims for.

Sorry No Slappz the goal was to garner a response and give an uncensored account of the atrocities committed by everyday people, like you. But I am also glad you admit you are on the attack which debunks my sociopath hypotheses.

No Slappz says-Why the lengthy explanation? It’s okay to say “I’m busy. I’ll respond in a day or two.” As to my post versus your post, well, your post was an indictment of the white community of today based on crimes that occurred in the distant past that were committed by people long dead. Thus, your intention is to encourage blacks to increase their animosity towards whites today based on events that have no connection or relevance to life in the present.

The explanation I offered was approximately twenty words. The question should be :Why the lengthy replies on my posts? Why harass complete strangers? I am sure your therapist has already touched on those subjects. In fact I am positive this serves as some sort of preventive therapy for you.

You also consider my post to be an indictment on the white community. You fail to make the mental leap required to keep this all in perspective. I admit , it is an indictment. An indictment on the people that did it and anyone who may condone it. As far as encouraging blacks; you give me way to much credit (THANKS, BY THE WAY).

The people that converged on Jena Louisiana were encouraged. Not all of them were black.

Your naivete is shocking. I cannot believe you think one post on lynching is going to sway the black populace into hurting you or anyone else. I guess in your paranoid world it could be considered the straw that broke the camels back.

No Slappz says-A couple of points. Blogs are for publicly expressing thoughts any way the blogger desires. As for my background, it goes like this. I have an undergraduate degree in engineering and I worked my way through college as an engineer. After college I studied finance and went to Wall Street.

Who cares. You are in cyber space (dial-up no less). Besides, it goes like this, anyone can sweep floors.

TMI.

I am a thirteen yr old girl and you are a congressman.

No Slappz says-You show that even your ad hominem attacks are lacking. So far you have shown that you cannot respond to the real issues I’ve raised, but to mask your inability, you take the standard route of attacking the person. That says a lot about your journalistic skills.

Your response is the stuff editors eat up. That shows how much you know about Journalism; but I am sure while you were working your way through junior college you took a class.
You demonstrate exactly what you criticize- consistently.

You are the one that admittedly attacked me , thus, I am defending. Not attacking.

No Slappz says- You wrote:Pastime? You mean like fans in the stands, box scores in the newspapers, celebrations when the home-team won? There was no Roman Coliseum in which blacks were lynched. The practice was illegal. Lynching was a crime. If it weren’t, there would have been a public forum for spontaneous hangings and other abuses. But obviously few lynchers were prosecuted.

Absolutely, you should check out a great book called No Sanctuary. It is a historical account of Lynching through photographs, press clippings, post cards and first hand accounts. There is a picture of a little girl with a pixie cut, in her Sunday best, standing, posing in front of a charred corpse, face twisted into a final grimace with a huge crowd of smiling folks, all in their Sunday best. I wonder where she is now. The photo, I think, was from 1929.

There are also hundreds of newspaper articles many giving colorful, enthusiastic, descriptions of the festive environment and horrific activities.

Despite lynching being a horrific act there was never legislation passed specifically to stop it. You can also read old clippings from Newspapers announcing an upcoming Negro Bar-B-Que. These events were well promoted and well attended. All this information is available online. Yale and Harvard have excellent sites. BTW there is no such word as lynchers. By coining the term you almost give away the frequency of lynchings- "there are actually lynchers hard at work as we speak".

No Slappz says-Lynching happened. No one denies it. It is part of the past and there is no desire among whites to repeat it.

The smartest most insightful thing you have written during our entire discourse. I am glad you speak for all white people.

No Slappz-No defense was presented. But by offering this statement you hope you can fool readers by giving the appearance of responding to statements purportedly made in defense of lynching. Nice try.

I tried to fool people when I was selling business opportunities. Once again, you give me way to much credit. But lets really break this down. Do you think people are that easily fooled? That they are swayed by emotion and shocking descriptions. We Americans are desensitized. You should try limiting your responses to only include how you felt and no one else. You cannot speak for anyone else. That strange feeling in your gut is a conscience not me trying to fool you.

No Slappz says“It always fascinates me when people are driven to dredge up the past for the purpose of maintaining divisions in the present.”The meaning of my statement is miles away from the false impression you created with your deceptive omission.

You never expounded on that meaning but like I said the whole study of history requires, what you call, dredging up the past. I guess if the subject of study makes your stomach turn you call it dredging. I am starting to realize you simply do not like to feel things. My post made you feel something. And now – you are driven 'to correct' the feeling.

It has been proven that conversations around the difficult subject of race and racism are beneficial for all involved. That conversation has to be honest and will sometimes be difficult. Why are you so afraid?

No one is going to attack you.

No Slappz says"Furthermore, it's utterly irresponsible to include unverifiable claims published in newspapers a century ago. Perhaps the excerpt from the Vicksburg newspaper article is true. Perhaps it is an extraordinary exaggeration. Fabrications do happen. Bizarre and unreal beliefs overcome reality every day. OJ Simpson was acquitted of a double homicide, even though he slashed the throats of his ex-wife and Ron Goldman. That was only 13 years ago. Not a century ago." To clarify. Newspaper accounts of spontaneous events are frequently erroneous. Moreover, even when the truth is on display, people will believe, or at least pretend to believe, pure nonsense. As I mentioned, OJ Simpson murdered his ex-wife and Ron Goldman, but many blacks refuse to acknowledge this obvious fact, even though the events occurred only 13 years ago and his guilt was confirmed by the facts at the time.

In that case Washington crossing the Potomac is an unverifiable claim .It is utterly laughable that you introduce O.J. Simpson as an example for your stance. You probably believe everything you see on T.V. No one, including you, knows what happened but Ron Goldman, Nicole, and O.J.

The T.V. trial of the century.

From what you write it seems you should have worked your way through law school. You are a bonafide expert on trial law and murder.

No Slappz says- “But what value or advantage is there in attempts to produce contemporary guilt over actions no living person committed?”At least in this attempt at deception you punctuated my sentence in a manner that informs readers you left off the second half. When you want to use someone’s statements against him, use the entire sentence if you can. But you should at least use the entire thought. Clearly it is easy to falsify or mislead with some quick and deceptive editing.You responded to the modified question I did not ask with:"There is no value; if you are guilty, do some soul searching."Notwithstanding the fact that you answered your own question rather than mine, you answered your own question with a non-sequitur. However, as for white guilt about lynchings, there is no documentation of it anywhere. But, if you believe successive generations of people should bear guilt for crimes they did not commit, what is your view of guilt among contemporaries and crime committed in the present? Is there any sense of guilt among blacks for OJ Simpson’s double homicide?

I agree there hasn’t even been an acknowledgement on the issue of slavery . Black folks are still waiting for the same treatment the Japanese got after internment.

An acknowledgement.

I do not care about white guilt about lynching. Most white people are good. Most people are good. You are the best example of the worst elements in the(human) white community. Smarmy, arrogant, cowardly, standoffish, misleading and deceptive.

No Slappz says First, I am well aware of the difficulties of convicting some racist murderers in the South as late as the mid-1960s. However, the Constitution guarantees many rights to defendants.
Despite the safeguards, federal prosecutors found ways to subject de la Beckwith to double and triple jeopardy, in violation of his rights. The federal prosecutors nailed him, finally. This episode was used to make a point. That point is this: the government was not willing to let him get away. Even though decades had passed, the government was not going to let him escape punishment. As I noted, “In other words, the pendulum has swung the other way.” That’s how the government went overboard.


You sound a bit disappointed they got de la Beckwith. I do not care about Constitutional guarantees, historically, they do not always apply to me.
BTW citizens putting pressure on the Government was the driving force behind de la Beckwiths conviction, besides the corruption was so profound during the first trials they had to step in.

No Slappz saysYou went well beyond documentation and the establishment of a “proper perspective”. You created an emotional climate that is aimed at stimulating anger today over crimes from the past. Meanwhile, a “notion” is an “idea or belief.” Thus, I think you agree with the idea or belief that all of today’s black issues are linked to slavery and lynchings.

I put the info out there. You were stimulated, you got angry, above all you have gotten emotional. Outraged that some uppity black man could dare bring this up- on his own blog! Which you stated earlier is a forum to post anything you choose.

As far as the long term affect of lynching; could be compared to the practice of decapitation and posting which was a practice used to keep slaves from running away or revolting. They would cut their heads off and put them on a post; for miles lifeless heads would line the road. If you were thinking of running away the posting was a good deterrent.

I honestly believe there is no such thing as Black issues- white guys made that up.

No Slappz saysAgain, your insight is nonexistent. What threat exists from crimes committed a century ago? They are no more threatening than nazi atrocities or the atrocities committed during the Spanish Inquisition. As for hate-crime statistics, well, I’ve seen them as long as they’ve been available. I gather it will surprise you to learn that blacks commit hate crimes at a higher rate than other racial groups. Moreover, white hate crimes are less violent and rarely involve murder.

Insight exist no matter what . Some people are simply limited. On the one hand you say bringing this up is dangerous on the other hand you say these events in the past are no more threatening than some of the worst atrocities in human history. Wow.

As for hate crime stats you need to look at the FBI statistics the overwhelming majority of hate crimes for 2007 involved white on black. You probably already knew that- so you were careful with your language: Blacks commit hate crimes at a higher rate. O.K. we are roughly twelve percent of the population and we have 20% of hate crimes. Whites over 50%. Like I said stats can be manipulated. I am a little disappointed you would put yourself out there like that. A waste of words.

For the whole world to see.

No Slappz saysBy your response you have demonstrated a poor grasp of grammar, usage and composition. There are lots of other examples, but you raised this one.The subject of my sentence is “contemporary problems.” It is followed by the restrictive phrase, “in the black community.” My sentence states that the contemporary problems are self-inflicted problems. Adding the restrictive phrase identifying the black community merely clarifies where the wounded reside. The sentence passes the grammar test.

Feeble defense. That still does not clarify your inappropriate choice of words. Perhaps you should consult The Elements of Style. You are certainly right; it does pass the grammar test- elementary grammar.

The whole thought is ridiculous.

You try to assign individual behaviors with a group of people. Drugs, murder are problems all communities face. There are plenty of white people here, in upstate New York killing people. In fact, the upstate cult hero Bucky Phillips, just killed two troopers last year. Do you think his race is important? Slappy I honestly wonder how you can make those mental leaps. You should know that regardless of race, people are the same; these divisions that you are so worried about are a fantasy. A fantasy the white and black people in the south used to believe in. Lynching was a real manifestation of that fantasy- one you clearly embrace.

No Slappz says-Once again, you hope to mislead. I mentioned the Holocaust and the subsequent rebound of Jews to provide an example of a much more recent human tragedy that its survivors have already overcome.

I wrote the post ; you introduced the Holocaust in response to what I wrote; it was the only historical event that could be compared. Unfortunately there are totally different variables involved in The Holocaust and the whole institution of slavery. The Holocaust was a six year killing spree. The victims of the Holocaust were mostly educated and in many cases rich, they were also able to pass as white if they needed to. Assimilation in a color conscious society is easier if you resemble the majority group.

No Slappz says-Hence, you have stated my point in clear terms. You believe the past controls the present, which means it also controls the future. Since we cannot change the past, we are, according to you, traveling into the future on a fixed path, to a destination we cannot change. You are predicting and expecting more disaster. Meanwhile, you are claiming that contemporary blacks suffer from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder without having first suffered the Trauma. In other words, you believe in the mythology of victimization. As though trauma is passed along in one’s DNA.

What is your point? I wondered that the moment you first responded. Hence,(chuckle) you must explain.

No Slappz saysI I have a passing familiarity with his work and I do own a copy of The Souls of Black Folk which I read years and years ago. However, it is his theories on black criminality that are most interesting these days.

You own a copy but you only have a passing familiarity? Hmmmm.

No Slappz says Since you like the idea of using the past as the basis for contemporary action, you will find Du Bois’ summary statement on black crime of interest
.
You have created a fantasy world where I am using the past for contemporary action but while you are on the subject that is exactly why we each have a prefrontal cortex. You learned to walk by using the past. I am simply responding to you.

He says that black crime surged as blacks adjusted to freedom after the end of slavery. He concluded that blacks engaged in crime because they did not know how to act in a free society. He offered this conclusion decades after slavery had ended. If a prominent white sociologist issued a similar opinion about the causes of black social problems today, what would be the response?

The prominent white sociologist would be dragged out of his house in the middle of the night, his wide eyed children watching, his wife screaming as strangers on horses lasso him, set him on fire and threw him on the trash heap.

Isn't that right Slappy?

16 comments:

Spartacus said...

Yo Dave...This punk came my way too. Thanks for taking up the fight. You seem to have this situation in order, so I'll just stand outside the ring in case you need to make a tag. Fairlane and a few others are standing nest to me, so you have a choice.

no_slappz said...

dbd, here's a question for you:

Did OJ Simpson kill his ex-wife and Ron Goldman?

I'm asking for your opinion.

David B. Dancy said...

Spartacus thank you; I enjoy your blog.

Spartacus I am not 'God like'. I cannot solve cold cases or transcend time and space. I was living in the South of Chicago when those murders occured.
It is difficult to offer an opinion to a question.
What fascinated me then and now was how easy it is to captivate a Nation with bullshit.
The people outraged about the outcome of that trial had nothing invested in Nicole. Had she and Goldman died at the hands of a drunk driver no one would have noticed.
That is my opinion.

David B. Dancy said...

Sorry i meant No Slappz. I apologize Spartacus I was not lecturing you.

no_slappz said...

dbd, you wrote:

"I cannot solve cold cases or transcend time and space."

I asked for you opinion on a murder case. A jury in the criminal trial acquitted OJ Simpson of murdering his ex-wife and Ron Goldman. A jury in the civil trial found that he killed both people.

I know you have an opinion on this case. But it appears you are afraid to admit what you know is true.

You wrote:

"I was living in the South of Chicago when those murders occured."

Where were you living when the lynchings you have written about were committed? Since, as you say, time and space are too great to transcend, what has enabled you to conclude so much about events of a century ago?

You wrote:

"It is difficult to offer an opinion to a question."

Coming from you, the preceding is an industrial-strength understatement.

You wrote:

"What fascinated me then and now was how easy it is to captivate a Nation with bullshit."

The preceding is then your firm statement on credulity in America.

However, your statement claims murder is bullshit. If you believe murder is bullshit, then you must also believe the 3,500 murders of blacks in lynchings are bullshit.

Frankly, I never thought of murder as bullshit, partly because I have lost several friends to murder and partly because nothing can undo it.

You wrote:

"But by claiming that people are
The people outraged about the outcome of that trial had nothing invested in Nicole."

You mean outraged people like Nicole's family and Goldman's family? Meanwhile, this part of your response to my very simple did-he-do-it-yes-or-no question is your first stab at blaming the victim for inciting OJ's homicidal rage.

You wrote:

"Had she and Goldman died at the hands of a drunk driver no one would have noticed."

False. First, if OJ Simpson's ex-wife had died in a car accident, her death would have been national news for a day.

Second, to avoid answering the question, you introduced a hypothetical scenario. Stating a hypothetical alternative to a very real throat-slashing double homicide committed by OJ is your attempt at dissembling.

You wrote:

"That is my opinion."

Sorry to tell you, but it is your pathetic evasion, and miles away from the expression of an opinion.

Try again. Did OJ Simpson murder his ex-wife and Ron Goldman?

The question should be answered with a "yes" or a "no". No bonus points for obfuscating.

Spartacus said...

No sweat DBD... it's all good.

fairlane said...

On another blog No Slappz is a "teacher."

Stalker, teacher, engineer, and financier on Wall Street.

The sad part is, despite having four full time jobs, No Slappz still can't afford DSL:(

Probably spends most of her money on those Detective Mags that Ted Bundy enjoyed so much.

I know they make pills for men suffering from Erectile Dysfunction, but poor No Slappz needs a pill that can treat her impotent life.

What a fucking asshole.

no_slappz said...

dbd, you wrote:

"Absolutely, you should check out a great book called No Sanctuary."

Really?

Like most of what you write, an element of truth slips in here and there. In this case you scored 50% for accuracy. You got one out of two words correct when you cited the book I should read, or peruse.

The correct title is "Without Sanctuary."

You wrote:

"It is a historical account of Lynching through photographs, press clippings, post cards and first hand accounts."

You really need to study a little harder.

David B. Dancy said...

I am still considering if I will reply to Slappy's reply to my reply on his original comment that attacked my original post As American As Apple Pie.
It is unfortunate I thought American As Apple,Pie was a provocative piece of work but i never thought I would be sought out by ????
I have been forced to moderate my comments for the first time.
I touched this guys heart- I got to him.
That's Cool.
I was hoping one of the many people(INSERT LAUGHTER) that stop by dancyscorner would have DSM-IV handy.
I feel we may have found a new diagnosis. A man or woman with low self esteem blended with a narcisisstic sense of self. A detachment from emotion coupled with severe anxiety brought on PTSD.
An individual seeking acceptance anywhere he/she can find.
The internet has provided many opportunities for people to 'redefine' themselves. The fact that Slappy claims he is a teacher, financier and engineer proves his need to be taken seriously. If this were a dildo debate he would be a ...
The fact Slappy is detached from emotion does not prevent him/her from feeling; its quite the opposite. Slappy feels profoundly. It is like a rush - the anger the, fear. They are real and online Slappy can do something about it- he can be the 'Avatar of Truth'.
I read Slappy's blog. He took my criticism to heart and decided to actually write more than a hundred words. He decided to share his unadultered point of view. It was a refreshing piece of writing coming from, what i thought was, a dark place. Slappy cares about the world he wonders why it is all going to shit.
He thinks any succesful black person is a statistical abberation. He belives black people are prone to violence. He thinks racism is a black construct; a gear in the machine of 'victimization mythology'.
we black folks are problem to him we cause trouble, bring down the real estate value.
He rides the subway, stiff upper lip- a proud New Yorker- no one ever notices, not even to rob you.
Slappy I know the truth- you need a friend. Someone to cry with you someone who can see the wreckage that you see.

no_slappz said...

fairlane, you wrote:

"The sad part is, despite having four full time jobs, No Slappz still can't afford DSL:("

I'm not sure why you've concluded that my computers connect to the world through dial-up. But if there is some device on your site that tells you so, you should send it back to the manufacturer for adjustment.

All modern electronics here. Cable modems all the way. Not even a dial-up phone. VoIP Cablevision. Meanwhile, my AOL account is for personal fun stuff, not business.

To fill you in on my teaching experience -- I wanted a close-up look into public education in NY City. Due to my engineering training, it was a breeze for me to pass the required tests to become a NYC math teacher. Here's what I found. In short, most kids avoid learning math. The situation is not good.

David B. Dancy said...

Nuff said....

fairlane said...

Notice he only answers challenges to his ego?

The important part of my statement had nothing to do with your career choice or ISP provider. It was the part about you "Stalking" strangers over the Internet.

You are oblivious.

no_slappz said...

Taylor's death a grim reminder for us all

Jason Whitlock

FOXSports.com,

About Jason Whitlock

Award-winning Kansas City Star columnist Jason Whitlock brings his thought-provoking style to FOXSports.com on a weekly basis.

There's a reason I call them the Black KKK. The pain, the fear and the destruction are all the same.

Someone who loved Sean Taylor is crying right now. The life they knew has been destroyed, an 18-month-old baby lost her father, and, if you're a black man living in America, you've been reminded once again that your life is in constant jeopardy of violent death.

The Black KKK claimed another victim, a high-profile professional football player with a checkered past this time.

No, we don't know for certain the circumstances surrounding Taylor's death. I could very well be proven wrong for engaging in this sort of aggressive speculation.

But it's no different than if you saw a fat man fall to the ground clutching his chest. You'd assume a heart attack, and you'd know, no matter the cause, the man needed to lose weight.

Well, when shots are fired and a black man hits the pavement, there's every statistical reason to believe another black man pulled the trigger. That's not some negative, unfair stereotype. It's a reality we've been living with, tolerating and rationalizing for far too long.

When the traditional, white KKK lynched, terrorized and intimidated black folks at a slower rate than its modern-day dark-skinned replacement, at least we had the good sense to be outraged and in no mood to contemplate rationalizations or be fooled by distractions.

Our new millennium strategy is to pray the Black KKK goes away or ignores us. How's that working?

About as well as the attempt to shift attention away from this uniquely African-American crisis by focusing on an alleged injustice the white media allegedly perpetrated against Sean Taylor.

Within hours of his death, there was a story circulating that members of the black press were complaining that news outlets were disrespecting Taylor's victimhood by reporting on his troubled past

No disrespect to Taylor, but he controlled the way he would be remembered by the way he lived. His immature, undisciplined behavior with his employer, his run-ins with law enforcement, which included allegedly threatening a man with a loaded gun, and the fact a vehicle he owned was once sprayed with bullets are all pertinent details when you've been murdered.

Marcellus Wiley, a former NFL player, made the radio circuit Wednesday, singing the tune that athletes are targets. That was his explanation for the murders of Taylor and Broncos cornerback Darrent Williams and the armed robberies of NBA players Antoine Walker and Eddy Curry.

Really?

Let's cut through the bull(manure) and deal with reality. Black men are targets of black men. Period. Go check the coroner's office and talk with a police detective. These bullets aren't checking W-2s.

Rather than whine about white folks' insensitivity or reserve a special place of sorrow for rich athletes, we'd be better served mustering the kind of outrage and courage it took in the 1950s and 1960s to stop the white KKK from hanging black men from trees.

But we don't want to deal with ourselves. We take great joy in prescribing medicine to cure the hate in other people's hearts. Meanwhile, our self-hatred, on full display for the world to see, remains untreated, undiagnosed and unrepentant.

Our self-hatred has been set to music and reinforced by a pervasive culture that promotes a crab-in-barrel mentality.

You're damn straight I blame hip hop for playing a role in the genocide of American black men. When your leading causes of death and dysfunction are murder, ignorance and incarceration, there's no reason to give a free pass to a culture that celebrates murder, ignorance and incarceration.

Of course there are other catalysts, but until we recapture the minds of black youth, convince them that it's not OK to "super man dat ho" and end any and every dispute by "cocking on your bitch," nothing will change.

Does a Soulja Boy want an education?

HBO did a fascinating documentary on Little Rock Central High School, the Arkansas school that required the National Guard so that nine black kids could attend in the 1950s. Fifty years later, the school is one of the nation's best in terms of funding and educational opportunities. It's 60 percent black and located in a poor black community.

Watch the documentary and ask yourself why nine poor kids in the '50s risked their lives to get a good education and a thousand poor black kids today ignore the opportunity that is served to them on a platter.

Blame drugs, blame Ronald Reagan, blame George Bush, blame it on the rain or whatever. There's only one group of people who can change the rotten, anti-education, pro-violence culture our kids have adopted. We have to do it.

According to reports, Sean Taylor had difficulty breaking free from the unsavory characters he associated with during his youth.

The "keepin' it real" mantra of hip hop is in direct defiance to evolution. There's always someone ready to tell you you're selling out if you move away from the immature and dangerous activities you used to do, you're selling out if you speak proper English, embrace education, dress like a grown man, do anything mainstream.

The Black KKK is enforcing the same crippling standards as its parent organization. It wants to keep black men in their place — uneducated, outside the mainstream and six feet deep.

In all likelihood, the Black Klan and its mentality buried Sean Taylor, and any black man or boy reading this could be next.

David B. Dancy said...

What I find interesting is everyone is so quick to indicty his 'lifestyle'.
No one knows what even happened. The race should not even be an issue. When the steroid freak pro wrestler killed his whole family what did people say?
Lifestyle.
Bad shit happens all the time race is knee jerk reaction. When all the facts come in write me again.
Until then....

no_slappz said...

dbd, you wrote:

"No one knows what even happened."

He was shot to death. Amazingly, his girlfriend was in the room and claims to have been hiding under the blanket on the bed. Frankly, I think she is lying.

The most reasonable scenario is one that involves Taylor becoming enraged and threatening her with a machete. She runs into the bedroom and locks the door, but kicks it and breaks it open, whereupon she grabs the gun kept in the nightstand and shoots him as he approaches her with his machete.

If not that, then a scenario in which she has hired shooters to nail him. Perhaps he was threatening to leave her for someone else and take their baby. Perhaps she had someone else.

But the killing was not random and it was not the result of a burglary gone bad.

Meanwhile, you are still the guy who cannot admit that OJ murdered his ex-wife and Ron Goldman.

eli's cheese said...

I think Sean taylor's wife killed him beacause look at him he got shoot in the groan! No man would actally aim at some mans groan and get him! Sean taylors wife probably did something that made Sean's wife come to him and pushed him or something and got that gun and aimed and fired! That whole story about under the covers is bullcrap! I hope i reached my point.