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Friday, November 16, 2007

As American As Apple Pie

Black History is American History. The lack of historical acknowledgement or an accurate account of the Black American experience is a regular complaint of those dedicated to racial justice in America.

The continued subtle omission of Black/American accomplishments in history books help shape a contemporary mindset- an indoctrination.

O.K. back to omissions

A particularly grievous omission( historical disregard) hovers around the issue of lynching; this brutal bizarre form of mob 'justice' would occur continually from the end of the Civil War to the last celebrated lynching in 1951. The statistics are fuzzy- The Tuskeegee institute claims about 3,500 during that period- most of the lynching recorded were documented through press clipping and postcards , there were obviously a lot more.

My grandmother has shared first hand accounts of an American world gone mad.

Before we continue ask yourself.

If I was alive then would I do something?

(To stop it)?

The Klu Klux Klan started in 1865.....thats interesting.

Isn't that the same year the slaves were freed?

Mr. Pike( 1st Grandmaster) did not wait one Mystikal second to set the record straight.

No..... I repeat...no.... uppity niggers!


The white supremacist mindset included a belief that Black people were less than human therefore inhumane acts could be committed.

The Klan would help define those methods.

The level of brutality was incomprehensible.

A lot of people will have difficulty reading this post.

Many won't even finish

Racism hits a nerve.

I always wonder why white people are so quick to say.

"This isn't about race"
"He played the race card"

We did not invent the race card.

Back to lynching.

Contrary to popular belief there was a lot of skilled slave labor. Slaves were used to build and maintain the infrastructure of the Southern United States.

But who cares.

They are not doing it now.

We all know the Civil War devestated the southern economy. All the, newly freed, skilled artisans who were once sources of income for their masters immediately became bonafide competitors.

There main competition was poor whites.

The frugal lifestyle of the former slave served as a catalyst for creativity and efficiency. It was easy for these survivors to create a comfortable modest lifestyle from very little.

Prosperity was right around the corner all the newly freed men needed was opportunity. The ingredients for success were there.

Guaranteed in The Constitution.

Many ex-slaves began to thrive as a result of hard work and of course, humility but the rapid success brought about jealousy from the Southern Gentleman- the once dominant Southern Planter did not enjoy the same profits he did before. It was an abomination for him to be stripped of his skilled cheap labor, but for the brutes to succesfully compete with him was unthinkable- like war with Iran

Still here?

Good.

I actually got hate mail for this article.

As we climbed the social totem pole under the watchful and protective eye of Federal Troops we began to develop a little self esteem. Started to walk upright, no longer bowing our heads as we walked by a white person. Some even made direct eye contact with a white person-before abolition that could get you killed.

Some former slaves even competed in international markets for tobacco and other crops during harvest charging top dollar for a superior crop.

This is surely where the notion of being uppity was invented.

The former Master snickering away as The French Merchant buys his ex-slave's bumper crop of Tobacco.

His face turning red.

Knuckles bone white.

Gripping the Lions Head on his cane... A gentleman

Many white southerners felt the The Federal Government had declared outright war on their sensibilities. There was a simmering effect.

It was not just the Klan.

There was determination to prevent the newly freed black men from ever being on equal ground with was the white man.

William J Northern Governor of Georgia from 1890-1894 conducted qa fact finding mission on the backroads of his state
He observed: I was amazed to find scores and hundred of men who believed the negro to be a brute, without reponsibility to God, and his slaughter nothing more than the killing of a dog.

Remember Black folks were no longer a private commodity the value of Black life cheapened considerably.

Lynching became the most popular means of controlling and intimidating Black people. To deter ant type of progress but it was mainly about white supremacy. It was terrorism American style.
It was a cultural phenomenon that persisted for generations undeterred by local, regional and even Federal law enforcement.

Lynching were not restricted to the south, they occured all over the United States.

Wherever they were it was an occasion.

There was a self righteous pride in these mobs. Photographs were taken, post cards made to commemorate what came to be known as The Negro Bar- B- Que.

Most of us conjur images of a man hanging from a tree.

Sorry- its worse.

The first recorded lynchings involved tying the victim to a tree, whipping them and then setting them on fire.

Pretty effective way to send a message to the uppity......

They would usually grab an innocent upstanding citizen to send a message

"We'll take their best nigger an burn im on the trash heap if they get to actin biggity"(quote in Without Sanctuary 00')

The power of the lynch mob was directly related to the excitement that could be generated. Many victims were dragged out of court after acquittal by a Judge and lynched. You could be lynched for just about anything.

Talk about race card.

There are documented lycnchings with absurd reasons like reckless eyeballing, unpopularity...unpopularity? and not selling land

Regardless the atmosphere was always carnival like . A man dressed as a clown in blackface
might be running around like a gleeful imp encouraging people on the sidelines to get involved.

People would sometimes rampage through streets severing digits, limbs or genitals off the victim as they made their way kicking, screaming and pleading for mercy

The burning coal oil would await them and the mob would erupt in a frenzy as the near dead but concious man/woman was lowered into the oil. Participants would come and clip a finger, toe somethiong as a souvenir before he was finally set afire and mercifully allowed to die.

An account of a lynching a by a reporter for the Vicksburg Evening Post decribes the 1904 execution of a husband and wife. When the two negroes were captured, they were tied to trees and while their funeral pyres were being prepared the were forced to suffer the most fiendish tortures. The blacks were forced to hold out thier hands while one finger at a time was chopped off . The fingers were distributed as souvenirs. The ears of the murderers were cut off. Holbert was beaten severely his skull was fractured and one of his eyes, knocked out with a stick, hung by a shred from the socket...The most excruciating form of punishment consisted in the use of a large corkscrew in the hands of some of the mob. The instrument was bored into the woman in the arms, legs ,and body and then pulled out, the spirals tearing out big pieces of raw, quivering flesh every time it was withdrawn.

A frenzied atmosphere...in America there are a lot of frenzied atmospheres.

Suffice it to say the thin fabric of order was routinely torn in many otherwise law abiding communities. Entire towns would trade in their civility and replace it with demonic, unthinkable demonstrations of hatred.

Words like savage , brutal, sadistic, evil and abberant can be used to describe every report of a lynching. remember these were supposedly sane people. The postman, The Dentist.

They were all indoctrinated to believe it was o.k.

This is The America we fail to recall in The History Books.

This is the America that gave a race of people PTSD

An old black man shared some thoughts "Kill a mule, buy another, Kill a nigger hire another...They had to have a license to kill anything but a nigger".

At least now you have to have a badge.

Bridge the gap...if you can.

any funny looking heirlooms in your family?

18 comments:

no_slappz said...

It always fascinates me when people are driven to dredge up the past for the purpose of maintaining divisions in the present.

The history of lynching is no secret. I'm willing to go with a higher figure -- 4,500 -- for the total number of victims. I'd rather not get into a hairsplitting debate about a secondary part of the issue.

How about the real issue? A discussion ought to include the fact that lynchings are a thing of the past. It should include mention of the legal actions that have destroyed the Ku Klux Klan. And a word or two about convictions of perpetrators of race-driven murders.

Furthermore, it's utterly irresponsible to include unverifiable claims published in newspapers a century ago. Perhaps the excerpt from the Vicksburg newspaper article is true. Perhaps it is an extraordinary exaggeration. Fabrications do happen. Bizarre and unreal beliefs overcome reality every day. OJ Simpson was acquitted of a double homicide, even though he slashed the throats of his ex-wife and Ron Goldman. That was only 13 years ago. Not a century ago.

But there's no doubt blacks were lynched. The facts are not hidden or kept from anyone who wants to investigate and explore this aspect of America's past.

But what value or advantage is there in attempts to produce contemporary guilt over actions no living person committed? Does the attempt to instill guilt in people with no connection to specific criminal acts that occurred mostly before 1900 improve the future in any way? No.

Meanwhile, federal prosecutors went overboard a few years ago to convict Martin de la Beckwith, who was involved in a famous racist murder way back around 1960. I think he was subjected to triple-jeopardy. Not just double-jeopardy, but triple. In other words, the pendulum has swung the other way. But you seem to have missed the change in social and legal attitudes toward those who are the vestiges of the Old South.

On the other hand, many people living today know about the riots in Watts, Detroit, South Central and Crown Heights. Moreover, the murder total in NY City rose from about 450 a year in the early 1950s to 2,200 in 1992. The increase occurred among blacks and hispanics, who mostly murdered each other, but their violence did spill over to include whites.

You seem to have overlooked the fact that for the last few decades, the leading cause of death for blacks between the ages of 15 and 30 was homicide. But the perps were/are not whites.

Meanwhile, I think the subtext of your post is to give your agreement to the notion that whatever problems beset the black community today, those problems can all be traced back to either slavery or lynchings. Thus, you are a supporter of the victimizaton mythology, and you are doing your part to ensure that blacks remain the recipients of sympathy for their plight. You want to absolve an entire race for any responsibility for all aspects of its behavior. As though blacks are handicapped by external forces.

But contemporary problems in the black community are self-generated. Self-inflicted. Sorry to tell you that white guilt is now counter-productive. It's time to show the alternate reality in which too many blacks exist for what it is -- a harmful delusion that has kept millions of people locked in a cycle of self-defeat.

It might be worth noting that 6 million Jews were exterminated by the nazis around 65 years ago. Six million was a huge percentage of all Jews on Earth. Is there an endless refrain suggesting Jews are still hampered by the spectre of the death camps? No.

Perspective is in order here.

David B. Dancy said...

Slappz Thanks for the long reply it shows i did my job. made you think; a little guilt should not make you uncomfortable the past is what it is; today is just that-today.

Sorry the real issue is the omission of these facts from an educational historical context. The depth of depravity has nothing to do with you or me; unless of course you defend it.
We can't sweep things under the rug that easily unless it is as easy for you to say there is no longer racism.
It is ironic that anyone could be uncomfortable with the facts. Like you said six million jews were exterminated.

The middle passage one hundred million- easily

Now tell me, are jews a race?

Does it matter?

The real story is our Federal government abandoning (Katrina)the poor hard working people to be killed by civilians.
I can make the connection; I know how welfare killed the black family; i know how it feels to hear some one speak of their first chance to vote.
Vote... what the fuck?
That was right before I was born
that shit was not that long ago
No one wants sympathy but you need to understand what types of shit your ancestry did.

Still do

Tuskeegee experiments.

I am sure from the length of the post er' reply you learned something.

It is only natural you experience a range of emotions when confronted with this information. Anger, denial, shame , guilt.

It shows you are human.

no_slappz said...

You wrote:

"made you think; a little guilt should not make you uncomfortable the past is what it is; today is just that-today."

No guilt here.

You wrote:

"Sorry the real issue is the omission of these facts from an educational historical context."

False. I learned about slavery, lynchings and civil rights issues in public school. It is hardly an act of omission that some people learn nothing in school.

You wrote:

"The depth of depravity has nothing to do with you or me; unless of course you defend it."

No. I do not support or defend it.

You wrote:

"We can't sweep things under the rug that easily unless it is as easy for you to say there is no longer racism."

Nothing is "swept under the rug." Every college history department offers courses in black history. Many offer majors in black history. Barnes & Noble devotes shelf space to black studies. Libraries are stocked with books on every aspect of black existence. Street-side booksellers in NY City often devote entire display tables to black-themed books.

On the other hand, there are movies like American Gangster that malign blacks by creating tales of evil that are tied to a hint of fact. Frank Lucas did NOT smuggle heroin into the US by transporting it in the caskets of US soldiers. That is a myth.

You wrote:

"It is ironic that anyone could be uncomfortable with the facts."

The facts are not in dispute. The issue is the motivation for presenting facts in manner that is aimed at something other than a dispassionate understanding of the societal mechanisms that led to lynchings.

As we both know, lynchings are a thing of the past. But, as with many issues affecting blacks, there seems to be a determination to dwell in the past instead of moving beyond it. It appears these facts of past behavior are repeated to maintain, rather than overcome, divisions with whites and mainstream US society.

You noted:

"Like you said six million jews were exterminated."

I did. There are Jews who won't visit Germany. Jews will never forget the Holocaust. But is has never stood in the way of a Jewish future. No Jews have traveled to Germany to kill Germans. But the worldwide hunt for nazis will not end until all those who participated in the genocide are caught or, as is frequently the case, dead of old age.

You will never hear Jewish complaints about being unable to attend college because some forebear was murdered by the Germans 60 years ago.

You wrote:

"The middle passage one hundred million- easily"

Okay. 100 million. Even if the statement is a fact, it has no bearing on life today other than as a reminder that no such thing can happen again.

You asked:

"Now tell me, are jews a race?"

Not in my view. What difference would it make?

You wrote:

"The real story is our Federal government abandoning (Katrina)the poor hard working people to be killed by civilians."

What the heck does the preceding mean? It makes no sense at all.

You wrote:

"I can make the connection; I know how welfare killed the black family; i know how it feels to hear some one speak of their first chance to vote."

Welfare killed the black family? Okay. In other words, government assistance is a bad thing if it means giving money and housing to people.

HOwever, I have a feeling you think Welfare was created for the purpose of harming the black family. In fact, it was created as a result of demands from blacks, whose demands were supported by whites.

You wrote:

"Vote... what the fuck?"

It took a Constitutional amendment in the 20th century to grant women the right to vote. In other words, 50% of the population had been legally barred from voting till less than a century ago. The issue is settled.

You wrote:

"No one wants sympathy but you need to understand what types of shit your ancestry did."

My knowledge of US history and world history covers slavery and other troubling practices. Slavery was a key part of global history. No one was immune.

You wrote:

"Tuskeegee experiments."

Yeah, and there was Dr. Mengele who made the Tuskeegee experiments look pleasurable. It's past. These issues have a place in the past. There is no value in attempting to create divisions through the use of historical information.

You wrote:

"I am sure from the length of the post er' reply you learned something."

Sorry to say I didn't learn anything about the facts of the past. That's all common knowledge. What's clear is evidence of a drive to promote divisiveness by reviving and maintaining anger about actions that are part of the past.

I'd have a different view if the practices of the distant past were still with us. But, in fact, society is changing for the better. Is there any doubt? I watched the Music Awards earlier. Most of the competitors were black. They are all wealthy. Sports and entertainment have created a growing class of wealthy blacks. I have not heard any complaints from whites about this fact.

But reviving anger among blacks seems to be the goal of some people. Why? It's counterproductive.

You wrote:

"It is only natural you experience a range of emotions when confronted with this information. Anger, denial, shame , guilt."

Sorry, no denial, no shame and no guilt. Like I said, the information -- the facts -- are well known.

As for anger, only a touch, and like I said, it's a result of encountering sensibilities aimed at undoing progress.

Meanwhile, if you want to focus on the past and using the past to guide our attitudes today, how shall we view the slaughter in Rwanda? Hutus butchering 800,000 Tutsis? How do we assess the butchery and brutality of the black despotic regimes stomping on roughly 700 million Africans?

How should we look at black leaders who refuse to provide clean water to citizens. The annual death toll due to impure water in Africa is over a Million a Year!

Why is the African continent a century or two behind the leading nations of the world? Why is the rate of violent crime 5 to 7 times higher among blacks than whites in the US?

It's disturbing that there is such an effort at misdirection. That's what this focus on slavery and lynchings is -- misdirection.

Repeating tales about sins of whites that are no longer practiced is a good way to avoid the real issues of the day. Like too much violence and too little education.

David B. Dancy said...

Your long winded reply is testament to the art of rhetoric. Whatever and however many words you use will not change the facts.
I am so excited that you learned about black history in school that gives me hint about your age because they did not teach it when I went.
The Katrina crack was reference to reconstruction. Yolu see, slappz, the nGFederal Governemet allowed the Costitution to do its job Black folks were running for office. Held government jobs and were started to shake off the fog of slavery.
The Klan and The Federal government put an abrupt stop to it. I can split hairs and give you thousands of examples.

The insane populace let loose on the hard working, humble ex-slaves ; its criminal. For thirty years the government was petitioned to step-in offer some relief to the thousands terrorized and killed on a regular basis it would take nearly a hundred years for therm to finally offer some relief.
Are you aware how much different your family would be if they were told success would get them killed.
Half of my family left the south with rabid white folks right on their heels.
The offense-talkin funny, bein uppity.

I really do not care were you stand it is indicative of the racist reality that we are challenged with daily.

You should not counter my position by doing the exact thing you accuse me of . I am not demonizing whites, but your false assertions about Africa demonize Blacks.

A century or two behind-By who's measure? Oh yeah the great white man's measure. Please- keep it real; I sure next you will say there is no global warming.

NO Slappz-I am simply rehashing some painful facts and you obviously are very uncomfortable.
You do not have to carry the burdens of your forefathers, just spend their money.

As for the Jews like I said I am not splitting hairs you need to be alive a little longer; really talk to people different than yourself ; but that probably makes you uncomfortable
I do not know. All I know is you are suddenly interested in everything I say.
So much for educ-ma-cation

But look what it got you. In the international scale the best thieves in the world reside.... you already know.

no_slappz said...

dbd, you wrote:

"Your long winded reply is testament to the art of rhetoric. Whatever and however many words you use will not change the facts."

Misdirection and faulty interpretation of facts seems to be your ballgame. Not mine. There is no dispute about the realities of slavery, the numbers of people harmed and the war that was fought in the US to end it. There is no dispute about the number of blacks lynched. The most extreme estimate is less than 5,000, and the majority of those lynchings occurred before 1900.

Meanwhile, when the Civil War began, the population of the US was about 30 million, and about 3 million US residents were slaves. That's 10%. Today, blacks account for about 12% of the US population.

You wrote:

"I am so excited that you learned about black history in school that gives me hint about your age because they did not teach it when I went."

The lack of instruction in black history in your school system is a function and a failing of the school system in which you were enrolled. Not your age. Meanwhile, public libraries stock plenty of texts on this topic. Frankly, you can get buried in the mountain of information on the topic of slavery, and for several generations, people have earned advanced degrees studying the societal experiences of every racial and ethnic group in this country.

However, you seem to think the historical facts of black experience were locked in a vault somewhere until recently when they were released upon a world of unknowing people. Hardly.

You wrote:

"The Katrina crack was reference to reconstruction. Yolu see, slappz, the nGFederal Governemet allowed the Costitution to do its job Black folks were running for office. Held government jobs and were started to shake off the fog of slavery."

Hurricanes have never responded to or respected the Constitutions of any nation.

If the Katrina aftermath showed anything, it was the risk of living below the water levels of the Mississippi River and Lake Ponchartrain. Furthermore, it showed the folly of ignoring the risk of living in the riskiest of flood plains. Large numbers of residents and property owners chose to forgo government-sponsored flood insurance. Residents made a bet that if the worst happened, they'd somehow survive without flood insurance, which is available ONLY through the federal government.

Now, with the new post-flooding sensibilities in place, NO bank will lend money to build uninsured homes in the flood regions of New Orleans.

But federal flood insurance -- the only flood insurance -- covers up to a maximum of $250,000 in property damage. Thus, no bank will back the construction of any structure priced above $250,000 unless the buyer covers the difference in cash.

There is financial reality despite your beliefs to the contrary.

You wrote:

"The Klan and The Federal government put an abrupt stop to it. I can split hairs and give you thousands of examples."

The Klan? The Klan is nothing. How many members do you think there are? A dozen? Two dozen? Tough law enforcement, federal prosecutions and Morris Dees via the Southern Poverty Law Center have done an excellent job of reducing the Klan to little more than a bad memory.

You wrote:

"The insane populace let loose on the hard working, humble ex-slaves ; its criminal. For thirty years the government was petitioned to step-in offer some relief to the thousands terrorized and killed on a regular basis it would take nearly a hundred years for therm to finally offer some relief."

You seem to be well along in your feelings of victimization. Take a lesson from the Jews. The nazis killed about half of all Jews in the world about 65 years ago. Despite the declared genocidal plan of nazi Germany to kill every Jew, they survived and have done well as a group.

In your worst-case scenario, a far smaller percentage of blacks died. Moreover, in the US slavery ended 145 years ago. One-hundred-forty-five years is long enough for an entire race to get back on its feet.

You wrote:

"Are you aware how much different your family would be if they were told success would get them killed."

You seem determined to ignore the fact that Jews were murdered precisely because they were successful. You also seem to ignore the fact that Jewish students were subjected to quotas at US colleges that LIMITED the number of Jews admitted.

There's no better time than today to be a black college-bound student. Quotas are used to INCREASE the number of black students at top schools. At the same time, asian students are now where Jewish students were several decades ago. Asian academic excellence has led to quotas limiting their numbers at many of the country's best schools.

But asians account for about 8% of the US population, substantially less than the percentage of the popoulation that is black. Moreover, many asian students arrive in the US knowing no English. Nevertheless, they learn and go forward.

You wrote:

"Half of my family left the south with rabid white folks right on their heels."

I'll bet your story is half false. You seem to have succumbed to the myth of victimization. Despite eyewitness reports, we're having trouble knowing exactly what happened last year in Jena, Lousiana. But you want to claim you possess an accurate report on events occurring decades(?), many decades(?) ago? Please.

You wrote:

"The offense-talkin funny, bein uppity."

The "uppity" claims are tiresome. No matter what frictions existed a few generations in the past, they no longer drive current thinking -- unless you want them too. But no whites that I know share your apparent views.

You wrote:

"I really do not care were you stand it is indicative of the racist reality that we are challenged with daily."

You are filled with accusations that reality is filled with racism. But you have no examples. In fact, reality counters all your claims.

Urban public schools serving largely black student bodies are funded at substantially higher levels than schools that serve largely white and asian students. This is a glaring fact in New York City, where I live. The average per-pupil expenditure in NY City is now about S15,000. The number is closer to $17,000 at the schools with no white and.or asian enrollment. On the other hand, the best performing schools in NY City, which are populated by mostly asian and white students spend less than $10,000 per student.

Getting into college is decidedly easier if a student is black. Period. It's easier. Black students get about 200 bonus points added to their SAT scores, for starters.

Professional sports are dominated by black and hispanic competitors. The entertainment industry is wide open and welcoming to black performers.

Political office is wide open to blacks. As a resident of Brooklyn, NY, I can tell you that ALL the people who represent me at the city and state level are black. The list incluces Yvette Clarke, who lied when she claimed she graduated from college. And yesterday she turned up on a list of NY City deadbeats who owe more than $10,000 to the city. The number-one offender is Damon Dash, at more than $2 million.

You wrote:

"You should not counter my position by doing the exact thing you accuse me of . I am not demonizing whites, but your false assertions about Africa demonize Blacks."

The issue is hypocrisy, NOT demonization. You, like many others, are desperate to blame the serious problems of blacks on external factors. You're so desperate for an external factor you are mining the past.

You also want to deny the realities of Africa. It is a continent beset by corruption and brutality of the most extreme kind. We're not talking about 4,500 murders a century ago. We're talking about leaders who steal everything and do nothing to prevent the deaths of millions every year.

The malaria problem that kills a million people a year in Africa would quickly disappear if the mosquito-breeding areas were fogged with DDT. But utter fools stand between a no-brainer solution and mass death. They're sticking with mass death. Swell bunch of people, don't you think?

AIDS is still rampant in Africa. Why? Because there is an unwillingness to accept the FACTS of how it is spread. And when AIDS drugs are given to afflicted nations, the drugs are sold for cash on world markets, leaving the ill to die. Great.

You wrote:

"A century or two behind-By who's measure? Oh yeah the great white man's measure."

Call it what you want. But when a continent lacks clean drinking water, when malaria and AIDS are everywhere, when the average life span in many countries is 45, and the average annual income is peanuts, you are describing a continent that is a century or two behind.

Don't you find it strange that hundreds of millions of Africans live lives barely removed from tribal existence? Nigeria is oil-rich, but the country is a nightmare. Zimbabwe was, not long ago, prospering. But Mugabe has created another nightmare state by seizing farms and handing them over to incompetent morons who have destroyed them and the Zimbabwean economy.

Is there a success story among the African States? I have had some hope for Liberia under the leadership of Elizabeth Sirleaf. But, who knows?

You wrote:

"Please- keep it real; I sure next you will say there is no global warming."

What difference does it make if the temperature rises a degree or two? Frankly, melting the polar ice-caps and melting the ice covering Greenland is probably the best way to generate supplies of fresh water for a global population that has risen from 2.5 billion in 1950 to 6.5 billion today, and heading for 9 billion in a couple of decades.

You wrote:

"NO Slappz-I am simply rehashing some painful facts and you obviously are very uncomfortable."

Like I said, no discomfort here as a result of historical issues.

My concerns focus on the fact that you, and many others, believe the past controls the present and future. Since the past cannot be changed, you are arguing that you believe the future is doomed too.

You really need to look into black culture and examine it. Education should become a leading issue. I mean real education. Science, math, economics, finance. Not soft subjects like history or sociology. Do you know there are years when not one black earns a Ph.D in math? Not one. How do you explain black underachievement in education? The small college enrollment, the low college graduation rate?

Why does violence occur at such high rates? Yesterday there was murder at a Christening party for a black child here in Brooklyn. A shooting that left one victim dead and others wounded. At a Christening!

You wrote:

"You do not have to carry the burdens of your forefathers, just spend their money."

I have not inherited a dime. You seem to trade on platitudes.

You wrote:

"As for the Jews like I said I am not splitting hairs you need to be alive a little longer; really talk to people different than yourself ; but that probably makes you uncomfortable
I do not know."

I live in Flatbush, Brooklyn, probably the most diverse neighborhood on Earth. Yesterday I attended a forum on Pakistan at which a panel was discussing Musharraf v. Bhutto. Why? Because there is a large Pakistani population in the area. In short, my slice of Brooklyn is home to people from every corner of the globe. I've talked to people from every part of the planet. How about you? I think you are stuck in that twilight-zone of victimization.

You wrote:

"All I know is you are suddenly interested in everything I say.
So much for educ-ma-cation"

Your commentary is interesting because it is a written record of your embrace of the victimization myth.

You wrote:

"But look what it got you. In the international scale the best thieves in the world reside.... you already know."

Yet another statement with no meaning.

The US is an open society. There is no shortage of opportunities, but many people need to overcome shortcomings before they can participate fully.

As the Oil article I posted on my site states, the world is short on geologists and people with the technical knowledge to run oil exploration and production efforts. Based on polical and economic realities, the domestic oil & gas business will begin a hiring spree. The jobs will go to those bringing something to the party.

David B. Dancy said...

You are literally splitting split hairs.

Bottom line - Do you feel Black people are inferior or suffer from ane inferiority complex?

Do you think the oil companies and Nigeria are benefitting from past colonial rule?

Do you think the meddling in Rwanda on behalf of Belgium had anything to do with Genocide that occured there?

I would love to breakdown each and every one of your arguments , but alas , you are a student of belittlement ( is that a word?).
You can pick any issue and spin it.
I loved what you did with Global Warming. Can you do the same thing with self fornication?( just kidding i could not resist)
Your sole purpose is to minimize the impact the brutal treatment and arrogant indifference has wrought.
You take the literal meaning of each word I write and interpret it the way you want.
Victimization Mythology.

That's Rich.

no_slappz said...

dbd, you wrote:

"You are literally splitting split hairs."

Hardly. Splitting hairs means we are haggling over the number of blacks lynched in the US. I accept a higher number than you offered simply to skip to the more important issues these facts introduce.

You wrote:

"Bottom line - Do you feel Black people are inferior or suffer from ane inferiority complex?"

First, by your statements, you present blacks in an unflattering way. Whether you care to admit it or not, your positions and claims support both of your conclusions listed above.

As for me, I do think there is a large segment of black society that embraces victimization to explain some of the racial imbalances that exist in the US. I believe there are a number of widespread delusions that conflate to form an alternate reality in which too many blacks reside.

It became painfully clear when OJ Simpson was acquitted for a double homicide he obviously committed. The absurd stories and conclusions about Katrina and the aftermath are further indications that irrational beliefs plague too many in the black community.

Thus, neither of the mindsets you offered are consistent with my view. I believe that too many myths cloud and crowd out honest analysis of black social problems. Moreover, I believe all the problems can be overcome.

You wrote:

"Do you think the oil companies and Nigeria are benefitting from past colonial rule?"

No. I wish they were. If oil companies were benefiting from colonial rule, the oil industry in Africa would be far different and far more beneficial to Africans, instead of the thugs and despots who control the oil-rich regions. Colonial rule ended in the early 1960s. OPEC was formed in 1962 and oil was about $2 a barrel.

Meanwhile, there were no American colonies in Africa. The colonies were controlled by Europeans.

You wrote:

"Do you think the meddling in Rwanda on behalf of Belgium had anything to do with Genocide that occured there?"

Here is where you throw a fastball of contempt at blacks. You've really whipped in a beanball with your suggestion that Belgians were somehow responsible for the slaughter of 800,000 Tutsis at the hands of the Hutus.

There wasn't a Belgian in sight. Belgium had relinquished its control of Rwanda about 1962.

To suggest that 32 years after the departure of Belgium, it was nevertheless culpable is an insult to blacks. First, the median age of Rwandans is about 20. Thus, the majority of the Rwandans had not even been born when the Belgians left.

Second, by hinting that Belgians were culpable, you are stating that blacks in Rwanda were so weakminded it was possible to impel them to commit mass murder simply by resurrecting old animosities.

Meanwhile, as you seem to do, you have once again sought an external influence to blame for the direct actions occurring within Rwanda.

You wrote:

"I would love to breakdown each and every one of your arguments , but alas , you are a student of belittlement ( is that a word?)."

You should. But you would discover that my points and questions are valid.

You wrote:

"You can pick any issue and spin it."

All I have are your words, some facts and my experience in the world. What I can do is break down a situation to its constituent parts and see what's what.

You wrote:

"I loved what you did with Global Warming. Can you do the same thing with self fornication?( just kidding i could not resist)"

The concept of global warming is yet another diversion from important issues that affect us now. Today. The temperature of the planet a hundred years from now is simply low on the priority list.

Meanwhile, perhaps you are new to the world of predicting catastrophes. It's an old business and one that publishers love. As publishers will tell you, it is always possible to sell more books about Abraham Lincoln, more diet books, and more books predicting the end of humanity.

Thomas Malthus, famous Scottish economist, predicted world famine a couple of hundred years ago. He claimed the world's population would outstrip food supplies and mass death would follow. The global population was about a billion at the time. It is now 6.5 billion. In other words, he was wrong.

Since then we have had Nuclear Winter fears and, one of the best, the Population Bomb. All the doomsayers use the same template for their predictions. They simply change the key word. Population bombers keep predicting the demise of mankind due to overpopulation. The only problem is that Earth's population keeps passing their estimates of sustainable life. We're still here, and still breeding like mad.

You wrote:

"Your sole purpose is to minimize the impact the brutal treatment and arrogant indifference has wrought."

Your statement implies that blacks are handicapped because slavery afflicted some people in the distant past. In other words, you're the guy who thinks blacks have problems that cannot be overcome.

The grandmother and grandfather of a good friend of mine were sent to a nazi concentration camp during WWII. The grandfather died, the grandmother lived. She came to NY City with her daughter. The daughter married my friend's father. He was born. The grandmother died about 10 years ago. Despite the grandfather's death and the grandmother's internment in the concentration camp, every member of the family has a college degree and an advanced degree. They are professionals. They are not unusual.

On the other hand, in your view, blacks who might have had forebears they never met who were slaves are incapable of shaking off the past. What does that say about blacks? Actually, what does it say about your opinion of blacks?

You wrote:

"You take the literal meaning of each word I write and interpret it the way you want."

Now you are veering into Wonderland. If I take the "literal meaning" of your words, then by your own observation I am NOT interpreting them any way I want. You're stating that I'm using a good solid dictionary definition to confirm meaning. On that you are right.

On the other hand, when Alice was speaking to the Red Queen, I think, she said, "a word means exactly what I what, nothing more and nothing less."

That seems to be your motto.

As for:

"Victimization Mythology."

It is a problem. Meanwhile, you did not respond to any of the very real issues that I mentioned. These are issues that affect black experience in the US today. Give it a shot.

As more evidence the tide has turned, it is now an everyday matter for blacks to shout about racism from every quarter. Al Sharpton travels the country repeating ridiculous accusations of racist acts committed by whites while ignoring truly despicable murders and violence committed by blacks.

Every member of the Nation of Islam seems to have developed a laundry list of white perfidies. I've heard Louis Farrakhan speak, live. His claims are nothing short of insane.

It all comes back to the same point. The point that there is always a black leader willing to assure and repeat the accusation that problems faced by black Americans are caused by external forces, namely whites.

Bill Cosby and Dr. Alvin Poissant are two of the few blacks to inject some honesty into the dialogue. They have written a book: Come On People: On the Path from Victims to Victors.

There's something to what they have to say.

David B. Dancy said...

Lets split hairs over what splitting hairs is. You say lynching isn't the issue
you must have forgot I wrote the post
it is the issue. It is only natural the whole basis of your contemptous posturing is your guilt.
I remember you from Luminaria; wipe the semen off the keyboard and move on.
You are lost in words...oh yeah you canot understand such liberal usage of the english language.
Hit your automatic rebuttal button and continue this discourse you probably don't have class today. Or maybe you and the guys can watch internet porn.
Lynching happened it was and is bad - Oil Companies suck and I am positive you guys swallow.

no_slappz said...

dbd, you wrote:

"Lets split hairs over what splitting hairs is. You say lynching isn't the issue you must have forgot I wrote the post it is the issue."

It now does not surprise me that you do not know the subject of the post that you wrote.

Whether you realize it or not, the subject of the post was your CLAIM that American History OMITS coverage of lynchings.

The stated subject of your post -- according to the first three sentences -- is the OMISSION of certain historical facts from the teachings of American History.

First, your assertion is false. Second, you provided no evidence to support your false assertion. Third, your commentary wandered from claims that facts about lynchings were omitted from history teachings, to anecdotes about lynchings, to factoids about the Civil War to bizarre claims of what might pass through the minds of people in or near a lynch mob.

You've written about lynchings as though they win first prize for brutality. However, you should look into the Spanish Inquisition if you want to see true sadists at work.

You wrote:

"It is only natural the whole basis of your contemptous posturing is your guilt."

Guilt? For what?

You wrote:

"You are lost in words...oh yeah you canot understand such liberal usage of the english language."

You now seem to say the meanings of words are fluid and flexible. If you believe as much, then you must accept that each person reading your writing will interpret it his own way, and each individual's way may have nothing in common with your intended meaning.

You wrote:

"Lynching happened it was and is bad..."

Everyone agrees. Except for the "is" part. Lynching does not occur in the present. Yet it seems you are aiming to muddy that issue too.

You wrote:

" - Oil Companies suck..."

How profound. You have now shown you know absolutely ZERO about important economic issues of the day.

And finally, you wrote:

"...and I am positive you guys swallow."

I suppose this means you believe you can disparage someone by identifying him as a homosexual.

With this comment you have presented yourself as a homophobe. Thus, in addition to believing myths that blacks are permanently wounded by a past none actually experienced, you show that when you lack the knowledge to continue a debate, you go for the ad hominem attack. That's too bad.

David B. Dancy said...

You are gay. Not like that is bad.

no_slappz said...

dbd, you wrote:

"You are gay."

What impact does sexual orientation have on your ability to present facts?

It is an interesting development that when you are unable to discuss an important subject you change the subject to the unimportant topic of sexual orientation.

You should ask yourself why you are afraid to keep to the topic you raised with your post that is available to everyone on Earth.

What are you afraid of?

David B. Dancy said...

I'm not afraid or self concious at least I know you are not a computer program designed to annoy.
You have good writing chops but your misdirected, conflicted, muddled with too much information and emotionally detached.
But it is o.k.
you are simply a product of hard world; you are strong here, in the ethers, but on the subway you avoid eye contact and shrink under the weight of your fears.
There is no doubt about that.
Try to let Go.

David B. Dancy said...

I forgot to mention; eye contact does not lead to violence unless you are afraid of everyone.

no_slappz said...

dbd, you wrote:

"I forgot to mention; eye contact does not lead to violence unless you are afraid of everyone."

Afraid? Eye contact and fearfulness CAUSES violence?

Can you explain that one?

David B. Dancy said...

Slappy says- Afraid? Eye contact and fearfulness CAUSES violence?

I do not need to explain. The qoute you wrote is totally different than the one I wrote. But i know one thing- "never give the steering wheel to someone that is afraid to drive".

Never let Slappy drive.

CG said...

Hi. I got here from kmoo, who I love in that he never seems to miss a point and he is funny and I wish he were my neighbor and mechanic.

I am a poor white Appalachian American hillbilly. We didn't own slaves but we fought for the Confederacy (Elexious was the great great grandfather's name) and I would argue that the War of Northern Aggression was not about slavery but about taxation. I would argue that white Appalachian American men are about the only people it is still ok to stereotype and belittle without reproach from anyone.

But that is my experience and your experience is yours and I'm interested in your broadening my perspective.

I didn't wade through all these comments BTW. Slappy doesn't really interest me. But you do. Thanks.

David B. Dancy said...

Cg said- I would argue that the war on northern aggresion was not about slavery but about taxation.

I agree, in fact the abolitionist here, in new york, like Gerrit Smith were pretty much run out of public life. I wonder why you would argue that point unless you assumed I would not agree.
i am a student of history i have looked at the slavery issue from many different angles. New york state made 33cents off of every dollar the slave trade generated. The draft riots in NYC were more about race than fighting for the North many black people were slaughtered on sight that terrible day. That was the North. The black man at the time had very few authentic allies in this strange land.

CG wrote- i would argue thatb white Appalachian American men are qabout the only people it is still o.k. to stereotype and belittle without reproach

I'm still stuck on the arguing. I would argue that the instance of ateroetyping for white appalcian males is limited to Larry The cable Guy and few other Foxworthy's.
Although i have been fortunate enough to read two great books by a white southerner, Erskline Caldwell. Tobacco Road and God's Little acre. Incredible works.
I am a little diturbed by "it is still o.k. to stereotype". it gives me the impression that this stereotyping has been going on for years. Jed Clampett is from bug tussle. But seriously I think stereotypes are a simpletons way of trying to understand a stranger.

But now I'm thinking on the subjexct just last year the Governor of new York compared regions in upstate where I live, to be like Appalacia; it was taken as an insult to the many cultured residents of rural New York.
Appalacia is probably a beautiful place but you are right it is attached to some negative imagery kinda like the 'hood'.

Alecto said...

I got here by way of Kmoo too and I can't bring myself to read the comments, other than seeing that CG posted. I'm sorry, maybe tomorrow I can.
I only have two things to say right now. The first is that it did not stop in 1951. The second is I'm so, so, freaking sorry I can't stand myself right now. Thanks for writing. I can keep reading.

xxoo - Alecto